I’ve complained a lot lately about the weather here in Minnesota. It’s supposed to be spring, and the mid-April norms are upper 50s. And yet, the blizzard whipping through outside is oblivious to these meteorological statistics. If we have it bad here, New England has certainly had it worse.
So for all of us blue state folks, is it possible to be Financially and Locationally Independent while pursuing Early Retirement? Where should you live, F&LIRE friends?
My current crush is on Colorado, specifically the front range. I grew up in the absence of mountains, so when we had the chance to hike about the RMNP a few years back, I was in hog heaven. The views are great, but so are the smells. Instead of city pollutants wafting through, you get a hint of evergreen in every nose-full. Ahhh…
Add to the fact you get a lot more sunshine in Colorado, along with winter temps that occasionally bust into the 60s and 70s, and you’ve struck gold. So yeah, for me it’s all about geographic features and climate. Make it fun to see, smell, and explore. Give me a fighting chance to be drinking a beer out on a back deck in March, or even February.
I suppose I could do that here in Minnesota too if I bundled up, but I’m too afraid of white walkers sneaking up on me. They are quite vicious, you know.
Where Should You Live?
Winter seems to grate on me more, the older I get. I’m not alone by any means. I commiserate often with others about being Nordic-averse, or having Minnesota Affective Disorder. Whining like a baby is okay I figure, since even Mr. Money Mustache would blanche at the idea of moving back to Canada.
I remember the first winter after the kids were born. I’d curl up on the floor in a fetal position, in front of the fireplace with the iPAD, and study up on far off places like San Luis Obispo.
You’ll notice in that last link a couple of things – 1.) there are two Colorado front range towns among the happiest cities in America. Mountains and beer, All. Day. Long. 2.) the list is produced by my favorite source of science on happiness – the Blue Zones study.
For shits, did you know that the Blue Zones author, Dan Buettner is a Minneapolis native? No wonder he made this topic his quest. Get out of Dodge, young man!
Plain and simple, if you’ve reached financial independence, but feel trapped by your location, you’ve only solved half of the equation. This is why location independence matters. Besides, there could be some very sound and appealing reasons to migrate, if health and longevity are a priority for you.
The Mad Scientist
Being a spreadsheet wonk, I can’t resist mixing up a mash of statistics and weighting criteria until I tweak the outputs to DEATH. Here’s the latest version:
A couple of interesting things to point out here: 1.) The front range is well-represented. Fort Collins and Boulder are fine towns (I’ve been to both), full of outdoor recreation options, good weather, walkable streets, and decent weather. 2.) Holy California, Batman! I guess you can’t argue with the near-perfect weather, rolling hills, and Pacific beaches, but the taxes and cost of living? Owie.
You can almost draw a fairly clean correlation between Geo Factors and Blue Zone Happiest. Charlottesville sticks out as an anomaly on Geo Factors – coming in with a high composite score despite less than stellar (but better than Minneapolis) Geo Factors score.
Interestingly, Cost of Living has very little correlation with Happiest and doesn’t appear to influence the Composite score much. There is certainly a heavier correlation between Taxes in Retirement (state by state) and Happiest, but it’s pretty marginal.
The main thing to note here is that Taxes in Retirement (state by state) are all pretty high, save for Florida (3.00) and Texas (27.00.) Set those two outliers aside, and you could make the argument that higher taxes at an aggregate state level correlate just a little to the Happiest places in the U.S.
Neato Exhibits
While compiling this hack job analysis, I found the following exhibits very useful. I’ve always been a “maps guy.” Combining places and data is a powerful means to convey information. These two U.S. maps are no exception:
This map is loads of fun. Like the caption says, it’s interactive. As you mouse-over certain counties, you get a pop-up window with the overall geographic score for any county in the U.S. If you happen to live in Red Lake County, MN, I feel sorry for you. But not too sorry – since we’re in the same state!
The beauty of this research that was performed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is that it combines points of geographic interest, like water features, mountains, etc. with climate features like sunshine, warmth, humidity, and precipitation. No wonder then, that the California coast ($$$), Florida, and the Rockies of Colorado are in dark shades of green.
Luckily for us and the Airbnb Experiment, the cap on the mitten of Michigan is light green, thanks to the crystal blue waters of Lake Michigan and the large swaths of sandy beaches. Not many places better to be in June-September on this map.
You’ll notice that Anchorage, Alaska and Honolulu, Hawaii appear on the Blue Zones Happiest map above, but are excluded from this exercise. I felt it best to keep this exercise grounded in reality. Hawaii would be really nice, but too far away.
Alaska is similarly too far away from everything. Heck, we already live in Minnesota, the continental Ice Box… Oh, and Alaska and Hawaii were excluded from the Geographic Features work done by the USDA above.
The trick? Freeing yourself and your family from those doggone roots
You’ve likely got extended family nearby. If you’re fortunate like we are, you have wonderful neighbors. And friends don’t grow on trees, no matter how awesome you are. So you’d rightly hesitate to leave your entourage behind. Let’s not forget the jobs or businesses we’ve invested in. Whew! Moving is a tough proposition when those roots run DEEP.
We’re not throwing in the towel just yet on Minnesota. There’s a lot to love about the state and the Twin Cities in particular. This exercise doesn’t factor in the quality of schools, but we know that Minnesota does well in this facet. Excellent restaurants, taprooms, and cultural outlets? We’ve got them in droves. It’s this winter bullshit that drives me nuts.
For now, I’ll hang my hat on the fact that Minneapolis rounds out the top 25 on the Blue Zones Happiest list. The aspiring stoic in me needs to buck up a bit. Or, the adventurer in me needs to be open to new frontiers. Certainly there’s an inner struggle at play. If we were to move, ideally it’d be before the kids establish lots of their own friendships and attachments.
And how would I possibly handle the rentals? Part of the idea behind my early retirement is using that newfound time to manage those houses. That includes upgrades, big and small. Were we to leave, I’d either have to sell (small chance of that) or hire a property manager for 6% – 10% of rents. Ouch.
Further, Mrs. Cubert has a chiropractic practice that’s doing quite well for itself. A lot of work has gone into this enterprise, to say the LEAST. Pulling up stakes would require selling the practice, and reestablishing a new one, somewhere else. New patients don’t grow on trees. It takes time.
So, Where Should You Live?
It could just be that I need to sit tight and enjoy what early retirement will yield, as the kids make their way through grade school. Maybe when they’re off to college, the empty-nest versions of mom and dad can do the snow bird thing.
The way Vicki over at Make Smarter Decisions writes about Siesta Key has me yearning to visit Florida real soon. My folks winter outside of Naples, and we’re overdue for checking out that neck of the woods. The next inner struggle (of course) is going to be Mountains or Coastline?
I chose the combination of data with a bias on Happiness. The premise behind the Blue Zones is very appealing. Where you find very old people living independently, you’re bound to also find sunshine, community cohesion, more walking than driving, and better diets.
I’ll always use the Blue Zones as my “North Star” when it comes to finding the ideal place to BE. Short of moving, there are plenty of things you can do to live more of a Blue Zones lifestyle, if like 99% of us, you can’t afford to live along coastal California.
Keep checking back. I’m bound to write more about this topic as the days tick closer to my early retirement goal. Even beyond that date, I’m sure I’ll be strategically planning vacations to scout alternative snow free, and happy locales.
Sources for this post:
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-to-retire/18592/
I’d also like to give a shout-out to Darrow Kirkpatrick, who does a really nice job writing about the “where” factor over at “Can I Retire Yet?” Definitely one to bookmark.
hell man, we got that same coating of ice that caroline had a few days ago in bufflao. it just friggin’ sucks. we really don’t whine about snow in dec, jan, fed, and some in march. that’s supposed to happen, but this past few weeks is bullshit. central coast of california is nice. we were a few miles from santa maria last year in wine country. great terrain and people and less than an hour to santa barbara and ventura county beaches. siesta key is the nicest sand i’ve ever seen but everybody is ancient. we’re trying to figure out… Read more »
Ouch. Buffalo. Man. And this year? Craziness.
Keep us posted on where you might land. Is there a short list?
mostly i want to leave ny state due to the combination of cost and winter. if i were keeping winter i would consider NH or vermont as they’re not too far from extended family. we need to take a closer look at the gulf coast of florida. i would consider renting our place to grad student for 9 months a year and coming back here in summer once i stop working. we need a one week vacation there with a couple of stops to check things out and eat oysters.
That’s actually a great idea, Freddy. My big concern would be finding the most responsible grad student to look after the place. You could perhaps use Airbnb as a short term rental? Same concerns but still an option.
Great post! I spend much of my time fantasizing about where we should retire to, come FI. I love CA, but have dismissed it due to cost of living concerns. Right now I’m high on Colorado (pun intended?) and Utah. Lower COL, beautiful scenery with plenty of outdoor activities, and nice people. I don’t know if the winters would be much better than back here in CT, but I’ll trade it for lower taxes and less humid summers!
Hey Adam! Thank you! Utah is an amazing state. Love the scenery and recreation options there. COL is definitely reasonable and winters in the southern areas of the state are very mild. St. George in fact is a haven for winter golfers. Colorado is still my #1, but who knows what a visit to coastal California might do to sway me!
This is one of those topics that I spend time looking into, and I’m always trolling the “Top 15 Sites to Retire in the World/US” etc articles that pop up. We are currently outside of Dallas, TX, and my wife has vowed not to move another foot further north than that even though she was born in Canada and grew up in Maryland. After taking a week long vacation to Puerto Rico a few years back, we really liked the idea of moving there eventually. Then this past year it got hit by that massive hurricane, and is still struggling… Read more »
Hey there Fiber Guy! How old will you be roughly in 10 years? Curious, since some of my thinking on this is “life stage dependent”… moving during kid-raising years is different sometimes than it would be during the empty nest stage.
10 years will be 54 for me with two kids out of college and one about 2 years in.
Great discussion on this post! We spent two weeks on the Front Range in Colorado last summer and it was AMAZING (when we were at Mr. Money Mustache’s place!) But we live Sarasota too. It is crazy hot in the summer there, but there’s the ocean, pools, and it isn’t SNOW and ice and gray skies for so many months. And – we can leave and go somewhere else in the summer! Looking forward to seeing where you might end up! And come visit 🙂
Hi Vicki! We’ll definitely be in touch once we arrange a visit to the ‘rents next winter! Sounds like a fantastic place to be.
I’m now daydreaming of being poolside in Florida with 90+ temps and a mai tai in hand – quite the retirement cliche but I don’t care!! 😀
Almost surprised that you didn’t include any places outside the USA?! Mind you, there are indeed some awesome places in the states to live very comfortably. The front range in Colorado definitely does fit the bill, albeit some places in Utah, Nevada are pretty nice too. Too many choices!
Cheesy! I wonder if your browser cache or my comments cache haven’t updated for you? You’d left a similar comment yesterday that I replied to. Check and let me know! Cheers!
I like your writing style , it’s first time I’m vising your blog and will re-visit shortly.
Warm regards from the sunny Bucharest, Romania! 🙂
I’m always so jealous you Americans have one big massive country to pick from……..and we’re left with the tiny UK nowadays!
As well as for retirement,I think you can get great benefits when working living somewhere awesome as well, in addition to improving your salary.
Do you still have some sort of agreements with your colonies, er… Commonwealth? Yeah, I can see where it’d feel a bit confining there. Maybe more so without EU membership!
I love Sunny and 75 by Joe Nichols. I just need sunshine, beaches, and fresh air. I’m from Toronto where it’s waaaayyy too cold. Currently living in Australia.
Australia! That is a DECENT upgrade! I hear wonderful things about Toronto, but then I hear about the terrible traffic congestion, winters, and home prices. I’d go southern hemisphere too!
I’ll have to check out “Sunny and 75” – maybe reinforce even more what I’m feeling.
Very cool. I should start a list too. Not sure where to start, though. I’d need to travel a lot more extensively before I can narrow it down. I went to school in Santa Barbara and I loved it. It’d be great to live there again for a few years, but the cost of living is sky high now. Maybe it’s best to just visit.
Also, I don’t mind living in other countries for a while. That would be more adventurous.
The Pacific Northwest is too wet and cold for me now. Ugh, tired of it.
Hi Joe! Glad you dug this. Funny too – I had started this analysis a long time back, and when it came time to post about it, I turned the analysis on its head. That list from the Blue Zones is golden.
I hear you on the PNW. I believe it’s amazing much of the time – but I struggle with too much rain and clouds too. Fair weather wuss right here – I can readily admit!
Interesting maps! This week in Michigan has me dreaming of being somewhere else too. It is a beautiful state but similar to what you said, the older you get the more winter feels like torture. I’ve not yet been to Colorado, but I’ve heard so many good things about it I look forward to visiting it and then who knows!
Hey there, Amy! I was just telling a colleague earlier today about my Michigan impressions growing up there. Seemed we had a lot more cloudy weather days – maybe the lakes had an effect? But hard to find fault with the Great Lakes – awesome amenity in any book, except maybe when it comes to lake effect snow in Buffalo??
Chicago winters are killing us, though we love the summer. Once kids go to college, we’re out for at least 5 months a year!
A-men, brother! Where will you spend those 5 months?
We don’t have any dreams of fully leaving our area even once we are financially independent, but it sure is tempting to escape the rain and gloom for a few months in the winter, especially this time of year when spring is struggling to arrive.
Hey Angela – Yeah, I’d struggle with the cloudy factor too. What a wuss, that Cubert!!! 🙂
You’re in a great spot – with hiking in your backyard to boot. Nice thing is it’s probably not too far of a haul to drive south to sunny/warm CA for the occasional shot of good weather?
“Hack job analysis” hahahaha you crack me up buddy. I thought it was delightful! Well I learned something new today. Had never heard of the Blue Zones Project. As a fellow Northerner, I feel your pain. These temps (and snow) for 7 months out of the year gets old. It’s the “roots” thing holding us back. I swear every time we vacation in Florida, it gets harder to leave. Lots of people crammed into that state though. Maybe for good reason? haha. The South is intriguing to me. Love the food, traditions and the southern drawls. Need to get to… Read more »
My neighbor up north! Yeah, we got it pretty rough for a few months each year. Funny how just the tail end seems to be the hardest – typically late March through early April. Give me a couple of a surprise 80 degree days during that time frame and I might be fine.
Yeah, the rentals will make for some tough decisions down the road. With the right planning though, I might be able to find some quality help that won’t run up a huge tab!
I left my country when I was 20 so I figured I could do it again once my kids are good on their own:) Anywhere warm will do! We are experiencing a small ice storm this week! Let me out!
Ice storm?? Ack! Those are the worst of winter – power lines come down and roads just a mess. Where are you located again?
Not quite the full storm but lots of damages! Southern Ontario
Maybe it’s time to move to Australia, like our friend Troy a few comments up! 😉
Hey, I grew up in Michigan so I get the whole snow thing. Now that I live in Philly, we get a lot less snow than Michigan, but even the snow we get here is starting to feel like too much.
I have a brother who lives near Sarasota and every year we make a winter visit. It’s always hard to leave because it’s so nice.
Maybe you’ve started to experience the phenomenon like I have – the more we gray, the less our tolerance for the white stuff!
Yep!
I’m almost surprised that you didn’t look beyond the USA borders! Albeit there are some really nice places to live in the states obviously! The front range in Colorado indeed comes to mind (spent quite a bit of time in that area).
Hey man. You know we’d be on the first boat to Holland if there were more room in those cramped quarters!
I suppose we’re not quite that adventurous just yet. We’re pretty close to our extended families, and too cheap to use our miles on international travel. :-O
I like seasons and more importantly changes in them. Hawaii is beautiful, but after a year of constant 82 degrees and sunny, I’d get bored. It’s the same principal as buying to much stuff to always make yourself happy – after that new Porsche you stop being happy and it becomes your ‘normal’. People in Hawaii get upset when it’s 71 and cloudy. So to me, you need variety in your climate, like everything else in life. I enjoy winter sports as much or more than summer ones, so having both is key to me. Actually, our summers here in… Read more »
ohhh, man. I’d take 82 and sunny right about now. Agree though, sometimes we appreciate when it dips into the 70s briefly. 😉
True to form – many people get acclimated and something like a 70 degree day can be akin to a blizzard. Interesting phenomenon. I used to have a distaste for the hot and humid, but I prefer that now to winter. Variety is good – agree – but we’ve been ready for our normal spring for well over a month now. Still not here!
I broke the snow code 22 years ago. After 25 years in MN, we moved to AZ. But two years later, we bought a small condo in MN to be near grandkids and to escape the searing AZ summer heat. Now have the best of both worlds – 7 months in AZ and 5 in MN. Was able to do this by starting my own engineering consulting firm. Not for everyone, but it worked for me. Most business was out of town anyway. I was not FI when I started, but got there a few years later. Did have enough… Read more »
The “Snow Code” – Ha! That is a good one, Daryl. The DaVinci Code of Minnesota – and it doesn’t require Tom Hanks to crack.
I really appreciate your wisdom on this topic, sir. I’ll likely follow a similar path, since there’s so much to the cities to love, despite the crazy weather. Perfect finishing line to that comment!!! 🙂
We moved from UK to Hong Kong and love it, there’s so much going on and loads to do. You certainly won’t need a car as we can do everything on one of the cheapest and most efficient public transport system in the world. Weather is acceptable, rents are high but utilities and other daily items are very cheap – probably no different to renting in UK once everything is averaged out. The cultural difference gives lots of interest, lots to learn. Also, we don’t pay tax on savings or investments – big plus! I would certainly consider moving further… Read more »
Hey there, Ben! You’ve taken this exercise to the next level! Many in the FIRE community consider Geo-Arbitrage for the same reasons you lay out for HK. GoCurryCracker comes to mind.
Although I love international travel, I’m doubtful I’d look to move us offshore. But who knows? We live in crazy times. 🙂
Hey Cubert,
For what it’s worth, Lily and I moved to Miami without knowing a soul, and can say it’s definitely hard to uproot yourself and start anew somewhere else. We’re glad we did it every day but even now, almost three years later, our circle is not as big as where we grew up.
I get where you’re coming from with the cold. Being a Caribbean native, I could not live someplace cold. I did for college, and know from that experience that I wouldn’t do it on a permanent basis.
Cheers,
Miguel
Hey Miguel!
Thanks for sharing that. We have a similar background as you guys – neither of us native to Minnesota. It is hard to re-grow that circle.
Whereabouts did you go to college? Wise decision to venture out when you know it’s a limited 4-5 year deal.
Cheers!
I’d take a 16″ snow dump in the middle of April rather than middle of December. Why? Because that December snow will stick around for two more months. While this April snow should melt in two days. Or two weeks. Theoretically. We can hope and delude ourselves, can’t we?
Shoveling and blowing snow builds character. Said a wise man. Whatever that character might me.
Ha! Well-put good sir! I love the glass half full view. My character however, overfloweth. 🧐
This is a fascinating post! I’ve been actively debating whether I want to move to a lower cost of living area while pursuing FI and the factors this map takes into account are all things that are important to me. Moving to a LCOL area while maintaining maximum happiness would be an ideal way to reach FI a little faster!
PS – I grew up in Upstate NY (most snow in the nation) so I totally feel you when I comes to these late snowstorms.
Thank you, YoungFire! I hope this at least provides some perspective. Low cost of living doesn’t seem to apply to all this CA locales, but Provo, Austin, and a couple of Florida cities made the cut!
The “Where” question is one that I struggle with mightily. Last Saturday in Raleigh we had a high of 81 and low of 59. Sure that sounds better than MN last weekend, but it means we’ll have 90+ degrees and 90% humidity through most of the summer and I’m tired of that crap. Colorado seems ideal with ample sunshine and four season weather, but the cat’s out of the bag $$$$. The roots issue is something that also nags at me. We have a son in middle school and aging parents who live nearby. We’ve lived here longer than anywhere… Read more »
Mightily indeed! That’s why I go nuts with spreadsheets, especially at the tail end of winter. It’s no fun having the reverse – super hot and muggy summers are almost as grueling.
Good luck in your journey – sounds like we’re in similar spots- nothing to be too cranky about but still seeking an upgrade.
I can surely relate to you. We just had some snow this morning (April 16) here in my beautiful snowy home of Chicago. I was on the way driving my son to his part-time work, and the usual 30-minute drive became an hour and a half.
Austin, TX has been on my radar in the past two years. Have been in the area a couple of times and the city keeps getting better and better. Also, heard of tech companies in the Silicon Valley area are considering moving to Austin. We’ll see.
Hey Bernz! I’m a fan of Chicago, but only for short visits. So much traffic! You may be onto something with Austin – it’s on the list of 23 here. I haven’t been there yet but hope to visit someday soon.
You really are a spreadsheet geek, aren’t you! Haha. Great concept. Love the interactive map on GeoFactors, happy to see our retirement town in the North Georgia mountains is green (and I didn’t even use a spreadsheet to choose it!).
Spreadsheets for President! 😉
Sometimes you just “know”, Fritz. And usually all it takes is nature surrounded by a few mountains or a nice water feature.
This is wonderful info. My parents both left their home towns, and we did great without extended family near by. I always told myself I wouldn’t be the kind of person that stayed in Nashville forever, but it’s feeling like we might- ugh! We’ve been hunting around for potential new homes, but it’s hard to find out of state jobs! And It’s hard to leave family, I don’t know how my parents did it haha.
Hi Steph! Thank you!
Nashville has a lot going for it, as does nearby Chattanooga. But it gets pretty steamy in the summertime. I’d almost trade places, if only to be closer to Florida! 😀
This is a fascinating treatment of one of my favorite PF topics–location, location, location. I’m coming at it from the other angle: it’s too hot here (Southern CA, about 20 miles from the coast) for seemingly longer stretches each year. And the schools aren’t great. We’re also intrigued by Colorado and are going to RMNP for vacation this summer! I’d say there is zero chance we’ll move there, but it’s fun to visit. Florida is of interest too, though I feel it would be more of a culture shock. I’m surprised the Pacific Northwest doesn’t rate higher, but I’m probably… Read more »
Hi Frieda! I’m glad you dig this stuff! I really enjoyed pulling all this “analysis” together.
Your point about So-Cal is interesting and telling. Live too far from the coast and it seems the benefits diminish quickly. No wonder half of Hollywood and that Mark Sisson fella lives in Malibu!
Even Mark left Malibu for Miami
He did?!? I’m behind the times! Guessing it was partly or entirely a money/business decision …?
Even though he’s never come out and said he follows MMM or anyone else, he claims that Miami is a more walkable town than Malibu was. His business is still in Cali, so I don’t know if it was entirely a business decision.
Nice write up, and well timed with the freezing rain we enjoyed this weekend in mid Michigan. We enjoy living where we are for now, but entertained the idea of moving when my husband was looking at grad schools. I’m still a little disappointed we didn’t take the leap and move to British Columbia, but his research project is a bit more interesting where we are now.
Thank you! We got over a foot of snow over the last 36 hours. Crazy times in April… being a native of mid Michigan, I’m happy to be hear in mpls – a bit more sunshine and a great city, but still yearning…
Interesting research. Thanks for putting it together. We are thinking about “where next” for us too. Tom
For sure, Tom! Let me know if this proves useful at all in your search. Where do you reside now?
I respectfully disagree with the “Geo-Factors” map for northern MI along the coast… I give it a solid “Very High” even with April Snow! 😉 Haha- kidding, kidding, I know the snow can be a downer for many folks. I guess I’m just one of the crazy ones, huh?
Hey there! I know – You’d think the awesomeness of June through Sept would vault it into dark green territory, right?!?
If you can tolerate snow and winter, you’ve got a leg up on many of us. It only becomes a problem if you can’t keep up those vitamin D levels as you age. Cod liver oil, anyone???
I could tolerate snow but Mr. G can’t. We’ve made it to Denver and Boulder but I hear good things about Colorado Springs. I’d also consider Hot Springs, Arkansas. At this point if we moved out of NC permanently or semi-permanently it might be out of the country.
Me and Mr. G are birds of a feather!
Out of the country? Whereabouts would you consider, Mrs. G?